Who Would Have Thunked It?
60Are We The Brightest Bulb in the Bunch?
Or Is Our Thinking Broken?
Collecting Facts - When Is Enough, Enough?
I've been thinking about thinking.
When I was a young girl in the 50's many girls were not expected to "think," at least not out loud. However, since lively discussions were common at home, I was not consciously aware of the need for a girl to have the deer in the headlight look. I'm afraid I had to learn it from the school of hard knocks; it was a painful discovery to find out that being popular meant "be blonde." (No disrespect to the blondes of the world intended....just the empty heads.)
Around our dinner table, the females not only thought out loud, we were encouraged to form opinions and you'd better know why you thought something, if you spoke it. "Marisue, what's your opinion about Goldwater's views on government supported welfare?"
It was not expected to know everything about it, just be prepared to answer the envitable "What makes you think that?" If you muttered "I don't know" you would hear "tell me more when you've discovered more."
Over the years, teachers would tell my parents, "she is rather opinionated." Well, do we want to be feathers in the wind, with no real destination? My dad was fond of feigning incredulence by retorting "You mean she doesn't fall for everything?"
I finally realized that If you didn't tilt your head to the right with a "huh?" look pasted on your face, and then toss your hair over your shoulder with a feminine "this is too hard for meeee" flounce, you just weren't heard or worse, were labeled "square." I remember getting hit over the head with a stack of books from an irate young man because I was for "Goldwater." "You're stupid! You're a girl!' he said and then "whack!" He practically gave me a concussion. My crime? Thinking.
When Kennedy was assassinated, you'd have thought I did it.
Gradually, I learned it was better at times to leave my thoughts inside my head; I still think it's good to do that on occasion...no one likes a smart ass. Ok, it took me a bit of time to learn that, and I don't think that label is always deserved, thank you very much. (Oi vey)
Thinking can be an instant function of the brain, or we can take some time to ponder. Those who endlessly question, reaching no conclusion are not the great thinkers of the world; I'm quite annoyed by it. You know the type, no matter what you say, you never make a point that is conceded; your discussion resembles a battle with the endless firing of torpedoes in the form of them quoting endless facts and research to you. Then, there is the opposite thinker, who is a jumble of emotions, not being swayed by any fact; they feel it, so it's got to be true and you will never convince them of anything different.
Both personalities are unteachable.
I like the middle. Mix facts with reason, experiences, and a skillful ability to blend them into a reasonable conclusion and guess what? You have the result of critical thinking. Our behavior should be guided by a skilled process of thinking, reasoning, assimilating the facts to what we know and believe, with a decision made from that combination.
Is it perfect? Nope. Nor should it be, the very imperfection of decisions is called -- drum roll....learning.
Everyone is vulnerable and subjected to irrational thought and mistakes. Critical thinking is a lifelong endeavor, a journey, not a destination.
My father often told me to surround myself with thinkers: people who demonstrated reason: people who questioned, but not so much so, that they never reached a conclusion. We have to invest at some point, we have to decide "this" is what I believe. Take a stand. Back it up with some fact and some experience (I sometimes refer to this as "gut" but it's really intuition formed by experience).
Critical thinking is going to be unique to the individual because it can never be without prejudice. In fact, it should contain a certain amount of prejudice, or what makes us any different than the robotic rote memorization of endless sound, or facts? Somewhere, we have to accept some results. Seeing, evaluating, assuming, believing, reading, understanding, concluding, all are components of criticizing a subject not for the mere exercise of just thought, but with a purpose to benefit your life or that of another.
Think about your thinking habits. Where do our thoughts lead us, and do we do it well? Does thinking make a difference? Should we allow someone else to do our thinking for us, and if so, how much is ok?
Having been around dysfunctional families and kids for over 20 years, I've seen more than my share of learned dependency. In kids, you can be mildly frustrated. When adults are unable to think their way out of a paper sack, it's much more irritating. Solutions that were obvious to me were a complete mystery to people or kids who were used to others solving every frustration, or frustration never being solved at all.
They lived in a constant "I don't know" zone, living by habit, making no progress, repeating harmful behaviors, not learning from the past.
Much like those who would send us down the same path of the last 8 years. Who truly wants that? The challenge is believing which candidate will truly bring about "change for the better." A rose by any other name, is still a rose; a pig with lipstick, is still a pig.
I worked with many families stuck on "can't" or sadly enough, stuck on "stupid." That's not being judgemental. Take a stand, form an opinion. How hard is it to figure out selling drugs is not helping you to getting your kids back? Or, when the evidence is screaming your child has been molested by boyfriend/father, etc. and you hang on to denial, choosing mate over helpless child?
Nothing smart about those behaviors they cling to so desperately.
They didn't know and they didn't want to know. The desire to know, is not present in all of us after a few years. If a toddler is constantly told "no" and never shown a substitute for the forbidden behavior, they will either be demanding and uncontrollable, or they will be insecure and uncontrollable. Neither personalities are productive nor "good thinkers." These young ones will grow up to be led anywhere by anyone, finding heroes where darkness reigns.
None of us are experts in all things, so of course we have to let others do some thinking for us, even after we're grown. When that happens, we are called upon to develop an opinion, based on the information we've discovered.
Since it's unlikely that we can uncover all the information before a decision has to be made, we are now at the point of decision making that will involve one or more assumptions. That's all normal. Once we're two and up, we are screaming "let me do it!" at an ever increasing rate, as an adult, we should be forming opinions without endless research. THAT IS NOT TO DE-VALUE RESEARCH AND KNOWLEDGE.
By the time we reach adulthood, and ever forward, our opinions and thinking processes should have a good foundation with habits we can rely on. We should be able to get oursleves out of most situations that are troublesome, with minimal assistance from others.
Our opinions should be well-formed, helping us feel secure that we are able to make sense of life - at least to the level of not being totally dependent on others. A society that is want of information is one that is easily imprisoned. When power-mad leaders take over a group of people or a country, they control the media. If you don't know more than one opinion, than it's hard to detect truth in any...it's equally important not to swallow every word that comes our way; again, critical thought mixed with reason, based on experiences is required. Even that is not infallible, as it's hard to separate ourselves from negative personal history.
As thinking humans who grew up in a reasonably healthy environment, who are somewhat educated, we should have a sense of right and wrong; we should be able to tell with some thought, if we are being lied to, or fooled. Our thinking is ever growing and changing based on "input" and "output."
What have our experiences taught us? Are we optimistic? Cynical? Both will lead us to make in-kind decisions.
Take shopping, for instance. I don't like buying things made in China. However, I have to live, and I have to make some decisions about living rather quickly. So, to stay in the rational zone of life, I decide to shop American-made where I can, and as I learn what products are homegrown, that gets better and easier. In the meantime, I'll have to settle for buying a lot of things from across the waters.
I like to hear the opinions of others; I like to learn new things. I know when I don't know something. That may sound simple, but stop and think about how many people you know or talk to, that don't know, that THEY DON'T KNOW.
The true know-it-all often doesn't know, AT ALL. I've discovered at my ripe old age of #@ there are a lot of unteachable people on the planet. One is never so ignorant as the one who does not recognize that they are. When those people become leaders, the people are in peril. I fear the Republican's VP choice, Sarah Palin, for that very reason, among others. Must we again, be lead by the emperor with no clothes?
Thinking critically, is a blend of those many thinking skills that involve: scientific thinking, mathematical thinking, economic thinking, moral thinking (who would have thought THAT, and yes morals are always changing, but basic morals of life and liberty should not) philosophical thinking and even historical thinking, to name a few. You are not wrong to begin with a bias, we all need a frame of reference that helps us get to a healthy result of the thinking. Reasoning and assumptions are a necessary path that leads to reasonable conclusions.
What bothers me, is many people will go to the polls without spending one moment in the critical thinking room. Just as dangerous are those people who LIVE in the critical thinking room, forever analyzing, never deciding or worse yet, never applying their analyzation to anything that is based on reason.
When I was growing up, I was not led to believe that thinking only belonged to the rich, the powerful, the loud. I was encouraged, if not forced to think, to decide, to seek understanding, and to take a stand. To not fear, to not be intimidated, to learn. I will not give up that power to someone who is louder, to someone who pretends to know; to someone who is untruthful MOST of the time; to someone who misrepresents themselves, and who defies reason. I can spot them. I've had a lifetime of spotting liars, deceitful people, and I am confident. Why? Because I do not think I know it all, but am not afraid to own what I know.
Will what I know change? Most definitely. I am a critical thinker who is constantly assimiliating the known with the newly discovered.
I am not a Rockefeller, I am not a Kennedy...I am an average American on the ground; I am "we, the people." I am. You are. We will not be fooled into thinking we do not matter. I am not afraid to think. Thinking is not dead; it may be asleep, but it is not dead. Wake it up!! Let us vote with the confidence of information, reason, and thinking.
May the best candidate take the office of President of the United States of America. We can accept no less.
(Sally's Trove, I hope this answers your request in a favorable light.)
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I share your view on Karl Rove, he's despicable. I've heard the repubs for years talk as tho only they are right; only they believe in god, only they can cure our ails; when it's "THEM" who've been in power and created the mess. they spin their web of deceit. I'm not saying the Democrats are without blame for the problems, but them that have the gold, rule.
Thank goodness your parents taught you to have your own opinions because kids who do not think are scary. They will fall for anything people tell them, and it is disconcerting to a teacher when the student may know more than them. This happened to me a few times when I found I had to correct my teachers on historical facts, but I have always had a thirst for knowledge and knowing things. That is scary how you had a boy hit you in the head with a stack of books and once I had a group of girls throw a rock in my head at science camp. They did this because they were insecure and mean spirited people and were jealous I answered our science camp teacher's questions. I think some children (and more adults) are insecure when they find someone who can think for themself, and who does not act dumb to look popular. I remember in middle school is kids felt they had to act dumb or not know things, or worse get bad grades to prove they were not into school. I loved school and I wanted to do well always, and even some of my friends stopped talking to me as much when they found out I wanted to go to college. Why does knowledge make people act so ditzy? I would think people would want to have the knowledge to make informed opinions, but the world seems scared of knowledge to some degree.
Hi Sweetie Pie! I think "knowing" makes us "responsible" and that scares people off; I've hated knowing things at times....I'd think "awww geeeeeze now I have to do something...." but in the end, it's always better to know or at least to search it out.
What bothers me are the extremists on either side; those who don't know but act like they do....and those who don't want to know--just rely on their emotions.
We live in scarey times, requiring all of us to do some serious thinking, analyzing, and DECIDING. I used to shop with a friend who was forever shopping; never deciding. I hated those trips and finally told her...."I can't do this. I can't forever 'look' for things. I have to make a decision and move on."
She thought I was nuts; but she was not a bad person or anything; I just didn't shop with her much because it was all about the "hunt" for her. LOL
Sometimes people act that way about politics, forever debating; waiting for the next clue, the next tidbit, never deciding that it's ok to be for a person - full of "yeah, buts." Now, I don't mean to say that we shouldn't be informed, of course we should. But, we can never examine everything fully; and eventually, we need to make our best decision, after we've made a reasonable examination.
I don't feel like I have to know "everything" a candidate has done; by now, in my life, I can listen to them, read a bit about their history, and pretty well sum them up. But, there's always that person who wants to say more about less. LOL
I say to them..."Look, I've been to two county fairs and a hog-callin' contest and I pretty well know what a person is all about by now." We'd move along a lot more quickly with decisions if Congress wasn't into eternal debate. I'm with Obama.... "ENOUGH!" can we not make a judgement? Must we wait for 50 lies and 2 truths before deciding someone is a liar?
I read about 6 articles regarding Gov Palin's past, listened to her own remarks; and made a decision she doesn't tell the truth and nothing she's said since has convinced me otherwise. McCain already didn't tell the truth; now we have 2 of them on the same ticket; more reason for me not to vote for them.
I've used their OWN words to judge by; not what someone else said about them.
=)) thanks, for reading and commenting; I'll get off my soapbox now. Not too many comments on this hub; but it strikes some people wrong when you talk about "to think or not to think -- that is the question." LOL
Wow! I too was raised to be able to have opinions and knowledge at the dinner table! From the friends I've made over the years,,,I was beginning to think my family the only one like this!!! (Until I heard Maria Shriver discuss the same thing about her childhood and how she raises her children, and her knowledge that all her nieces and nephews are being raised this way as well). At one job where we were having a yearly 'get to know each other' colleague weekend...I was labeled 'intimidating' by several! But, they softened it, 'in a good way.' Me??? Intimidating??? These were men saying it,,,,had they really never met women whose brains were exhibited when the mouth was open and decisions were being made?
As you say above ''' we will not be fooled into thinking we the people do not matter." I think we've been somehow lulled into NOT THINKING critically or deeply about very much at all but the next 'made in China' purse or blouse or household decor item we just 'have to have.'
Hi desertblondie!! In my lifetime, I've seen so many things come easy to us, we got used to it; now, we pay the price! It had tohappen, and I wish it were not going to be so hard in the years to come; but we can make it, if we trust our instincts - or work on re-developing them. Life's pendulum swings; we'll be ok, one day at a time - as long as we are moving towards making our own decisions; not expecting government to always bail us out; but not letting them become too powerful either!
Thanks for visiting me!! How are you doing??
Marisue, you were fortunate to have your encouraging family. My guess is, that kind of encouragement is becoming more and more rare.
When parents deny children the validity of their thoughts, whether by telling them they are wrong or by making all decisions for them so that they never learn to decide on their own, eventually, children are robbed of the ability, or worse, the desire, to think critically. As it is said that charity begins at home, so does learning to think.
When I posed the question, "Is the discipline of critical thinking endangered, or worse, dead?" I knew that you would speak strongly from your point of view, and that your words would be that special blend of thought, deeply personal experience, and creativity that characterizes your presence here on HP.
Thumbs up, Marisue!
That's why I love Hugpages - we have a lot of independent thinkers over here.
Thanks for the hub, I could really relate to many things while reading it. :)
As for your obvious democratic bias - I think you need to think more :D No, this is not to say republicans are better, of course they are not. This is to say that expecting The Powers to take care of your problems seems to be a manifestation of this very "unthinking" qualities you are ranting about ;)
Re-phrasing your own words:
when the evidence is screaming "democracy" does not work as expected and you hang on to denial, choosing illusions over reality?
Misha, I agree - we ARE the government and it is we who must live up to the task of keeping them honest. If we simply, mindlessly trust the elected officials to do their job without our oversight, we are asking for trouble.
And I also have know some Republicans who gave honorable service as elected public officials. Everett Dirkson, Chuck Percy here in Illinois, also Paul Simon, Governor Jim Thompson come to mind.
You know, Misha, I am very biased this year and the last 8 years has made me so. The 2 repub candidates have not changed my mind. I simply do not want to take a chance on 4 more years of the same.
I really don't want the government meddling in our lives, but the repubs do need to clean up this mess; they made it and the Dems let them. They are all responsible in my book and they better get busy and quit fighting. We need our thinking at full speed the next decade! =) I do fully admit my bias.
It's human nature to do what is inspected not expected...we can't be asleep at the wheel any longer. I'm awake!!
I'm the eternal optimist tho' - I tend to think America's going to come around! We've got good people, we just weren't paying attention.
Just like parenting a toddler, you leave them to their own devices and soon the house is a wreck and they're in danger!
LOL Marisue, I was not able to get my point through :)
I think you WILL have the same, no matter whom you vote for, or collectively choose as a country. It is not republicans or democrats who is failing, it is the structure itself, famous American "democracy", which is failing...
Just my 2 cents :)
Well, some people would agree with you; but I really do believe that democracy will prevail. We're being slam dunked, for sure and maybe we had it coming to a certain degree. However, I take the defense on some of that belief, I - for one, and I don't think I'm alone - was busy the last 50+ years just living my life, raising kids, paying my way, trying to survive...and I didn't "mean" not to pay attention to our government. Most of us in the 70's I think really thought our elected officials would be honor driven not greed driven. Now, I realize that human nature is "greedy" and we should have watched carefully.
Can you picture a world without our Democracy? I cannot envision it.
Sally's Trove, you have such insight and consistently see between the lines of what I write, to the heart of what I cannot even express.
My points on critical thinking, on that highly personal level, is really the major point. Tho' certainly there are those great thinkers who are famous for their dissertations, most of us color our thinking with personal experiences...thus making our decisions equally personal and meaningful. We hope. LOL
I do see less and less thinking; as the family deteriorates, so goes the thinking. I'm not sure how we get it back; but I do believe it begins at home. I don't want the Palin's or McCains or even the Obamas dictating my lifestyle or morals.
Some years ago, we were parents on a child's ranch. It was the hardest experience of my foster parenting years. Why? Because they (the power people) were little dictators. In fact, I nicknamed the ranch "Little Russia" because we had to ask permission to do anything, we were forced to go to the generic church on the ranch, we were really discouraged to do any independent thinking whatsoever.
I always knew, but then found out without a doubt, that I could not live in a tightly controlled society. I would be one of the underground people in a Revolution.
I found myself telling the "powers" what I thought - I became so uncomfortable living under their sometimes unlawful guidelines. Sexual abuse from parent to kid was rampant in the ranch and hidden under the proverbial rug.
We soon left, as we could not work in that situation.
I cannot live in a controlled environment where I am not allowed to think, or express that thinking. Talk about torture. "No opinion allowed!" Pure hell.
I am always grateful for your visits to my hubs as well as your contributions. Let's decide to poke those around us and make sure they are awake and thinking!
I could be wrong in my conclusions of course. But this is what the body of evidence and my pondering over it suggests...
And yeah, I can easily picture a world without "democracy". In fact, a mere 300 years ago almost nobody in Western countries even heard about it. Let alone the rest of the world.
What was before that? Who tried to implement this model? Ancient Greece? And what happened to them?
I can't recall any other case from the top of my head. Looks like humanity spent most of its time without any need for democracy, whatever this term means.
Chef Jeff, you are right to point out that there are still some who serve honorably. It must be very hard for them, as they see themselves surrounded with dirty deals and sneaky bills; lies, dishonor - deceit, you name it. I applaud them for their service! I hope we can find more this November...no matter the political party.
Maybe I am naive to think we've progressed to Democracy and shouldn't go backward; probably am, but it's hard for me to think of not having the freedoms I enjoy, yet am at risk of losing. What other governing style do you think will take it's place and still allow us to live with personal growth; economic opportunity? I am really asking, as I can't picture one. I suppose people were happy without Democracy, but there seems to have been huge struggles between the classes, anarchy - oh wait, sounds like THE US. LOL
LOL I guess it's time to first agree on terms then. What you (and most Americans) call democracy is the 1st ammendment. That's why you are talking feedom of speech, etc.
In my understanding democracy is a form of government were officials are being elected by populace, directly or indirectly - no more no less.
Also, I can easily imagine a constitutional monarchy for example having all the set of rights declared, and even more. In fact I don't have to imagine it, there are plenty of such countries in Europe.
I know that Americans are taught to use this word to depict both the form of government and 1st ammendment together, but it really blurres the picture when we get to details, so we better separate them.
So, if we start to talk about democracy in its strict meaning, I have at least two problems preventing me from calling it the most progressive:
- I tend to think that a person trained to rule the country from the early childhood should have better skills on average than the person without that training. Pretty much like musicians. Under democracy we by definition have untrained person in power.
- I am a thinking person, and that means I belong to minority - majority does not think. My interests are very different from the interets of majority, and I am never ever going to have my interests considered when majority choose who rules the country.
Now, what personal growth you are talking about? Those who want to grow, will grow under any form of government. Others won't. Some of the best Russian art pieces were created under communist rule.
Economic opportunities? Look at China :D Oh, no, strictly speaking they are democracy, too. They just don't have the first ammendment. OK, we may be to something here. ;)
As for the 1st ammendment, I think you might want to read the constitution of USSR, brought in power in 1936 http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/russian/const/
I read, but I don't believe. LOL Somehow, I don't think living in the USSR is anything as free as living in the US of A. Course, I've never been there....so I don't know firsthand. Tell me more.
I'm sorry, I did giggle a little at reading this; out of ignorance perhaps. I am reminded of a small group of USSR citizens who came to the university I attended not that many years ago, in Oklahoma.
One was "government" one was a teacher, and one was a "common" citizen.
When describing their life in their free society, one talked for a few minutes of how impressed he was of our grocery stores, movies, and written material for purchase at book stores and newsstands. He talked of the many variety of foods and paper products, shoes and clothing he saw on the shelves here - saying he could spend weeks in the stores looking at what was available.
After a few statements, the government person stepped up, removed him from the front of the room and said "In Russia, we have everything we need." that was the end of that part of the discussion.
Now, that may not be a common reaction. It left an impression on me. In a private discussion with the "teacher and private citizen" we had a moment of privacy, and the teacher said he could never find - in Moscow - his size of boots. The ones he wore were stuffed with paper in the toes, there. For the trip here, they had been given new clothing.
He also mentioned, that they could not move around the country, and were assigned their jobs and told what to take in school for their degrees, so there would not be an "abundance" or overload with one specific area of expertise.
Now, I was also told something similar in 1989 (this other discussion was 1992) by another person who had lived in Russia for a few years. She said the outlying areas could not get supplies. Russia had the supplies, but the mode of getting them to other cities and areas of need was not well carried out.
I don't know much about Russia, but what I did know, was given to me by people who had been there.
All three people whom I personally talked with said "To speak out was not wise, one had to be careful."
They were eager to talk to me, but nervous and apprehensive, but who was I going to tell?
I will never forget those people. I apprecaited my freedom in newfound ways.
This link you've provided sounds so good I should move there...but it is a bit unbelievable to me...sooo tell me more.
Oh, one more thing, these people from Russia, they scoffed at our Democracy, but given their situation, I think they would have traded places in a heartbeat with anyone in America.
Again, I am speaking from somewhat a point of ignorance, I am not a world traveler and think we have many problems in America. Freedom brings many situations of conflict...because more than one opinion is stated even from the government. I've not heard differing opinions debated from Russias governing officials...but maybe we just don't hear the debate. Ours is broadcasted throughout the world, it seems, sometimes to our embarassment.
Sure :) What you heard from those people (except for the "government", who actually was KGB) was an absolute truth. However, we believed we lived in THE ONLY REAL DEMOCRACY in the World! Pretty much like Americans do now...
The point? What is written on paper and what happens in the real life are two very different things. And current American reality illustrates this as good as former Soviet one.
In fact, not only current, but more remote American reality can be a good example, too. How do you reconcile the right to live with draft? And this is the most fundamental right of all ...
PS Yeah, they would have gladly traded places with you. America was a much better place economically and freedomly (LOL sorry for that) at that time. Don't think it holds anymore, though...
I see your point; the constitution here is more lived tho, to a higher level than was Russia I believe? We are losing some freedoms, and are at risk of losing more, and yes, we do believe we are real democracy, as real I suppose as a government can get, mixed in liberally with corruption. LOL
If Russia is moving towards more Democracy, than I am glad. I have never lived under a strong socialistic rule, so I'm not sure what it's like. I'm used to moving around where we desire, and rules are basically the same all over the country and we normally can vote out or turn out the criminals in government, or enough of them to keep the others scared, with the exception of the last 12 years or so.
I don't know if this analogy makes sense, but here's one that comes to my mind. If one has always eaten hamburger, and it's called a steak and the person eating it is told that's the best meat around...they may develop a belief that they have the best, why have anything else?
Then along comes a person who likes steak and is told it's the best meat around and they have it frequently. They try to sell it to the one who thinks hamburger is the best. It doesn't work until finally the person who eats the hamburger finally takes a bite of steak, and then sees what he's been missing all this time -- therefore a desire and need for steak is born.
Maybe steak is not the best, but for both - it now seems so.
When someone can come along and show me something better than Democracy, and once I take a bite of it; I might be convinced. I'm getting hungry.
LOL, I like your getting hungry, it sounds really convincing.
My take - I don't bother with governments. There is nothing you can do about it. Zero. Nada. Your government will not represent your interests, no matter what form of government it is. The only case when it can is when you become a part of it - and this is not something I am willing to do :)
So I leave it to others to decide what is better for them - steak or hamburger, and sneak away to eat my raw fish :D
Somehow this Hub on critical thinking has become a stage for displaying the differences between government in Russia and government in the US.
I admire both of you, Marisue and Misha, for continuing to explore your beliefs and opinions from your respective points of view, supporting what you say with facts and considered experience.
I need to say something here about Misha's comment regarding the confusion Americans may have between democracy and the First Ammendment, and his comment, "Under democracy we by definition have untrained person in power."
About the first. Democracy is government by the people, where the majority of the people are invested with the ultimate authority to govern all. The writers of the US Constitution created a flexible governing document that was meant to be re-interpreted from time to time, from age to age. That's the way the writers intended it, and they showed their intentions in deliberate vagueness. The Ammendments and the judicial system are the ways we the people keep this document alive as the backbone of self-government. It may be that the majority of Americans are now confusing the Constitution with the First Ammendment, and if they are, they are demonstrating a wholesale endangerment of the discipline of critical thinking, and the remedies for getting critical thinking off the endangered list lie in early child learning and getting "No Child Left Behind" out of our school systems.
About the second, tell the Roosevelts, Kennedys, Clintons, and Bushes (among other venerable American families in the past) that their children were not trained from infancy in politics, service, government, Latin, and critical thinking. We don't have a Monarchy here in America, but we do have dynasties whose goals are government service, be that a good or bad state of affairs since it is surely mixed with financial gain and ascension to or retention of power. Regardless, government for the people by the people does not imply a lack of education in government, leadership, and politics for those who aspire to our country's highest offices.
A few months ago, I swore I'd stay out of all of this once I wrote my personal and unthreatening Hub, "Hillary and Me." Well, looks like I had to go back on my personal promise!
Thanks, Marisue, for posting my comment, which is entirely too long.
Warmest regards to all,
Sally
Sally, a delicious and palatable reminder of why and how and what our democracy means!! Simply delicioso!
I think we are demonstrating that critical thinking takes us into many subjects and politics/government are stealing the show nowadays. Certainly we have raised people to be trained as leaders in government; their choices and families take them far into the qualifications! My family was well on it's way in the 60's to do just that, had my mother's blindness not stopped her with it's special demands. She was chairman of the Democrat party in a district of New Mexico and well on her way to outdoing the current Palin and maybe Hillary by far. She was dynamic and a verbal and intellectual charmer; she knew just how Congressman had voted and what their basic stand was on most issues.
We thought we were a typical family, though I did eventually find out most girls my age just wanted to flirt with boys, not knocking it, I loved the guys too.
However, that encouragement to care what was going on around us, to get involved, to believe we, the people counted, that governing by the people and for the people set us apart and made us accountable, is a sleeping art/idea now. Yet, it is deeply rooted in my internal belief system.
We are a self - possessed generation, one who has forgotten to monitor our elected officials. I am encouraged to see so many new young voters taking an interest this election.
Thank you, my friend for reminding us how our government began, and you can talk as long as you want! Thumbs up to you!
Misha, I don't think I could ever believe that self government, that Democracy, was not the kind of government to strive for....I can't let the "powers" do my thinking for me, and the beauty of it here, in part, is that we don't have to be elected to matter or to make a difference.
You see, the idea we don't matter is a self fulfilling prophecy, it's the fear we don't matter that keeps me and probably millions of others going to the polls. =) fish for you is good, healthy, but I'll keep believing in my steak. =))
Marisue, I think the discussion thread became even more interesting than the hub! I was also brought up to have an opinion, and to be interested in people and politics, and to question how society develops in response to government action.
My husband, by contrast, was told by his mother that when he was putting money on the table, then he would be entitled to an opinion, and when he had his own home, someone else would listen to it!
I know which regime I prefer in the home, but as to government? Well, who in their right mind would want more of what we've had in the UK or what you've had in the States. My gut instinct is that change is needed, and we should take the change that's offered. Only history will tell whether that is the right road forward. However, I do agree with Misha in that we to a great extent are responsible for making our own way and that government action can be a hindrance or a help, but it will not solve all America's ills, and it won't solve ours in the UK. Is the dog wagging it's tail, or is the tail wagging the dog?
Anyway Marisue, I enjoyed the hub, as always.
woo not touching that. But nice hub. And yes, you clearly think about things. :)
Peace
hi hot dorkage!! aww come on...you're a thinker! I can tell! we thinkers are going to have to unite this election, for sure! =)) thanks for reading as always!!
Hi Amanda! we simply have to change what the last 8 years have brought. It's strange how silent our Pres is.
I also think we can't rely on government to do all our thinking for us...we've seen where that leads. Cheney and Bush have clearly said or indicated that what the American people want does not matter. They have become dictators! No doubt about it...right before our eyes, behind our backs.
Closed doors gave secret deals, not even deals that were good for us...now how in this land, can we elect leaders who blatantly go their own way??? very disturbing and shocking, we've got a mess that will take us years to clean up.
I hope Bush and Cheney are tried for not only war crimes, but Treason. More and More books are coming by people in the administration who are telling horrible tales of abuse of power....another reason I am so against Palin. We can't afford to be silent.
always glad you stopped by!
Cogito ergo sum :)
Great hub Marisue but as a mere male, I don't have an opinion on this one!
hi sixtyorso...it was just me, rattling about thinking or not thinking; we have an abundance of non-thinkers this elections seems to be swaying people no matter the truth. I think the truth is much easier to detect this time around; but some are swayed with the "hey, it's a woman, no matter if she tells the truth, vote for the woman!" - at least that is my fear.
so, I rattled about thinking; not that it will sway anyone. but, I try....
Good hub, Marisue, and good comments, too! I have never, NEVER, understood anyone who disrespects, or worse - makes fun of, someone for being intelligent and wanting to learn. But I really have seen this change for the better over my lifetime. Honest.
PS: I'm pretty sure "thunked" isn't a real word... but still funny! ...So we won't call it a "red moment."
the thunked word was definitely a play on smarts.... on purpose, we say it a lot in the south when we're "making fun" of dumb. LOL
We say "who'd have thunk it?" but I'd never heard "thunked" before. Funny.
"down" here, it's 'THUNKED IT" lol EITHER way it's wrong, but dramatic license works, and I have been known to make up words -- but funny. LOL
Well, I'm pretty sure anyone not in the west is basicly retarded anyway. So, don't worry about it. ;-)
Taking a stand on thinking, Hooray! I've learned though that too much Thinking and Driving Don't Mix!
Not when you think about driving ;)
well the word thunked was just for effect - not calling any particular group dumb....my purpose was just to get the attention by saying something the opposite of my point. LOL I'm really not calling anyone dumb... =)) yet. LOL
Hi Dottie! n Misha!! HMMMM thinking and driving; not sure Florida can do those two things at the same time; you wouldn't believe how many d-d-d-ddangerously rude drivers there are here....they'll honk and ride your bumper just because you turned your blinker on.
no thinking allowed on the highway...
great hub. keep on thunking! :D
thanks for reading my thinking about thinking!! come back soon! =)
Too much thinking can be hard on the brain. Thunking sounds a little more gentle. :)
Interesting. Thoughtfully written. I think.
Hi Rochelle !!! good to see you and I agree...though I'm rarely accused of thinking too much LOL
Hi tom, I thought one time, it didn't feel too good -- so I quit.
Chef Jeff 3 years ago
I am often so amazed at people I know who would "never vote for a Democrat" or "never vote for a Republican."
Why not? Is it only the smartest and best people who join one party, and the others are all idiots and goof-offs? First of all, a one party system reminds me of the Soviet Union or Romania in the bad old days. I fear the day we have only one party perpetually in control.
Karl Rove's design was to make a permanent Republican majority. But after so many Republicans were getting into trouble by 2006 and after, I have to say his dream fell out of favor with the oligarchs who also wanted it.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, Mr. Rove. Or didn't you learn that in your preppy school?